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- Hi, I am trying to find out the year on a recently purchased Llama.380. The serial number is pretty low: 607179 Above the serial number it says 'STOEGER INDUSTRIES' Followed by 'S.HACKENSACK, N.J' On the opposite side of the slide it reads: LLAMA- GABILONDO Y CIA VITORIA (ESPANA) Any help with this would be very much appreciated.
Automatic pistols made by Gabilondo from 1914 to 1933 were based on Browning F.N. models of 1903, 1906, 1910, and 1922. In 1931 it was decided to modernize their line by undertaking the manufacture of the external hammer, recoil-operated system originally designed by Browning and used by Colt and the Fabrique Nationale. Work on a new design began in 1931 and culminated in 1932 with a Spanish patent issued on April 12th of that year. The first pistol produced was an exact copy of the Colt Mod. 1911A1, but without the grip safety, and in 9 mm. Largo (Bergmann) and .38 ACP calibers. To this weapon was given the trade name „Llama' which is the name for currently made Gabilondo pistols. For some reason this first model produced later was designated Model IV.
Shortly after the production of this first model, a blowback style based upon the external shape of the Colt-Browning was introduced. A further improvement of the blowback pattern was undertaken and this second blowback style was issued from 1935 on. Somewhat later a variant pattern in 9 mm. Parabellum caliber was produced. After the close of World War II certain models were dropped, grip safeties were added to the remaining models, and a .22 caliber pistol was introduced.
The final serial number had nothing to do with the assembly code number (although there are some exceptions to this that have been noted). So, you have an all matching pistol. Does it have the fancy entwined 'GC' (Gabilondo y Cia) on the right side of the frame to the rear?
Some details concerning the various Llama models are as given below
Mod. I This was a 7.65 mm. Browning caliber, original blowback style, dating from about 193'31934, first issued without model designation, with factory catalog designation No. 529. It was an imitation of Colt Mod. 1911.
Mod. II This 9 mm. Short version of the Mod. I was identical to Mod. I except for magazine capacity.
Llama Firearms Serial Number Lookup
Mod. III This was a 9 mm. Short, second blowback pattern and more closely approached the external shape of the Mod. 1911A1 Colt. It dates from about 1935 and is believed to have replaced the first two models in distribution and to have been dropped from production in 1954.
Mod. III-A This post-World War II version of Mod. III is distinguished by the addition of the grip safety but otherwise is the same as Mod. III. Several styles of grip pieces and markings have been noted.
Mod. IV This was the original Llama pistol, dating from 1931-32, in 9 mm. Largo (Bergmann) caliber. It is a full-size reproduction of the Colt-Browning recoil-operated pistol Mod.1911. When first issued no model number was assigned but the factory catalog designation was No. 528. It has been suggested that the name Modello IV may have been reserved for the Tauler pistol which is identical to it. Both are identical to the Llama Mod. VII.
Mod. V Made in 9 mm. Largo (Bergmann) and .38 ACP calibers this appears to be the export version of Mod. IV. It is marked .38 caliber rather than 9 mm. It was made prior to World War II only.
Mod. VI This has been reported to be in 9 mm. Browning Short caliber, heavier than Mod. III, but this has not been confirmed. Fully recoil-operated Llama pistols of the Mod. VII (or IV) style are known to have been made in the 7.63 Mauser caliber, expressly for the German trade, and it is possible that the designation of Mod. VI may have been given to these pistols. This is purely a conjecture.
Mod. VII This pistol in 9 mm. Largo/.38 ACP is identical to Mod. IV and is, therefore, the original Llama pistol, manufacture of which dates from 1932. This model was produced until about 1954.
Mod. VIII This is identical to the Mod. VII, but with the addition of a grip safety. This addition seems to have been the first application of a grip safety to a Llama pistol and was introduced prior to World War II. This pistol is still made.
Mod. IX First described as a recoil-operated style of the Mod. VII, but in three calibers: 7.65 mm. Parabellum, 9 mm. Largo, and .45 ACP. However, factory literature of 1936-39 shows this model in .45 cal. ACP only. It was manufactured from about 1936 to 1954.
Mod. IX-A This is the .45 ACP caliber, to which a grip safety was added immediately following World War II. This pistol is still in production.
Mod. X This pistol, in 7.65 mm. caliber, was issued along with Mod. III and is merely a smaller version of that model (Fig. 175). It appears to be identical to Mod. I, to which no model number was originally assigned. This dates from about 1935 and was produced until about 1954. A Model X-1 has been noted, but details are unknown. It may be a special variant of the Mod. X.
Mod. X-A This is identical to Mod. X, with the addition of a grip safety, which was added immediately following World War II. It is still in production.
Mod. XI This is a 9 mm. Parabellum caliber with a variant style of grip frame and hammer and has no grip safety. Earlier issues had a lanyard ring at bottom of left side of the grip frame, but this ring was omitted in later issues and the grip pieces were redesigned. It was produced from 1936 and was still made in 1953 but does not appear in 1955 factory literature.
There are no Llama pistols designated as Models XII, XIII, and XIV as these designations have been reserved for and are used on the Llama revolvers. Mod. XV.-This is a .22 caliber (Long Rifle) pistol which follows the same general design as the other recent Llama models. It has a double grip safety. This is a post-World War II production.
Cross section of typical Llama pistols
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Proofmarks & Year Codes
Since the dawn of organized weapons makers and armies, the purchasing governments have demanded a system for assuring that the products live up to their promised specifications. This practice became most organized, and earned the name of 'proofing' with the advent of firearms, when armor plates were proof tested to assure their resistance to (proof against) early gunfire. Though 100% of armor in those early days was tested, this rapidly changed to batch testing, which is what we have now with most firearms. A representative sample of each lot of weapons is tested with a proofing cartridge, which has vastly higher pressure than the normal specifications. If the weapon survives a certain number of these, it passes, and all weapons in the lot get the proof mark to certify they meet the government's minimum expectations of function and safety.
Llama Firearms Serial Numbers
Though the US government has inspection processes for military goods, there is no proof house of any sort for domestic US gun makers. Yes, that means there are essentially no standards. Most other countries, do, including Spain. The model S photo to the left shows the typical location and appearance of proofmarks on Star pistols. They are usually on and/or near the front of the trigger guard. There are 3 on a typical commerical arm, and four on a typical military arm. Note that most will not be hilited in white as these are. In fact, yours may be quite hard to find or read.
The Spanish government set up a proof house in Eibar starting in 1923. From 1927 onward, the proof mark additionally was accompanied by a letter code, indicating the year of proofing. There are 28 letters or letter-combinations, as explained in the chart below. Every 28 years or so (there are inexplicable gaps) they start a new series, by adding a number to the end of the letter codes.
Though there was another one operating for a short time in the early 1920s, Eibar is the one and only Spanish government proof house for most of the 20th century. Although I do not specifically address it, this should therefore work for Astras, Llamas, and any other handgun. I am not sure the same coding scheme is used for long arms, but try it and if it sounds right, it might be.
As seen below, there are four possible marks on any Star firearm. Three are proofmarks, and there is a fourth that is a Spanish military acceptance proof. Although many other countries have military acceptance marks as well, I do not know their design; if anyone does know for sure, please send me a good quality photo or other reference information. The three proof marks indicate receipt at the proof house, passing of proof, and the date of proofing. I do not know when the date is added, but note that it is not exactly the date of manufacture, but the date of proof, which is always later. Probably the same year though, so its a good guide.
As implied above, with proof date codes, you can get an accurate and reasonably precise date on your Star pistol. Just use this handy translation code list. The first three years of proofing (1927-29) were reportedly somewhat confused, so dates of manufacture may vary widely from the stamped date. Additionally, no proof date code means only 'pre-1930' not 'pre-1927.'
Using proofmarks to determine year of manufacture:
| Series 0 | Series 1 | Series 2 | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Proof | Year | Proof | Year | Proof | Year |
| A | 1927 | A1 | 1955 | A2 | 1981 |
| B | 1928 | B1 | 1956 | B2 | 1982 |
| C | 1929 | C1 | 1957 | C2 | 1983 |
| CH | 1930 | CH1 | — | CH2 | — |
| D | 1931 | D1 | 1958 | D2 | 1984 |
| E | 1932 | E1 | 1959 | E2 | 1985 |
| F | 1933 | F1 | 1960 | F2 | 1986 |
| G | 1934 | G1 | 1961 | G2 | 1987 |
| H | 1935 | H1 | 1962 | H2 | 1988 |
| I | 1936 | I1 | 1963 | I2 | 1989 |
| J | 1937 | J1 | 1964 | J2 | 1990 |
| K | 1938 | K1 | 1965 | K2 | 1991 |
| L | 1939 | L1 | 1966 | L2 | 1992 |
| LL | 1940 | LL1 | — | LL2 | — |
| M | 1941 | M1 | 1967 | M2 | 1993 |
| N | 1942 | N1 | 1968 | N2 | 1994 |
| Ñ | 1943 | Ñ1 | 1969 | Ñ2 | 1995 |
| O | 1944 | O1 | 1970 | 02 | 1996 |
| P | 1945 | P1 | 1971 | P2 | 1997 |
| Q | 1946 | Q1 | 1972 | Q2 | 1998 |
| R | 1947 | R1 | 1973 | R2 | 1999 |
| S | 1948 | S1 | 1974 | S2 | 2000 |
| T | 1949 | T1 | 1975 | T2 | 2001 |
| U | 1950 | U1 | 1976 | U2 | 2002 |
| V | 1951 | V1 | 1977 | V2 | 2003 |
| X | 1952 | X1 | 1978 | X2 | 2004 |
| Y | 1953 | Y1 | 1979 | Y2 | 2005 |
| Z | 1954 | Z1 | 1980 | Z2 | 2006 |
As implied above, with proof date codes, you can get an accurate and reasonably precise date on your Star pistol. Just use this handy translation code list.
The Spanish government proof house set up 28 letters or letter-combinations that replace years, starting in 1927. There was no proof house in Eibar before 1927. Every 28 years or so (there are inexplicable gaps) they start a new series, by adding a number to the end of the letter codes.
Though this system works fine for the Eibar-based Star, use care when trying to proof-date a gun by another Spanish maker. Other regions have different proof houses with different marks and codes.
.jpg/1200px-Llama_7%2C65_mm_(6825674060).jpg "Llama firearms serial number lookup")
Proof marks are often very shallow, and in obscure places, like far up the trigger guard. You might not notice them unless looking, under bright light, at low angles. All the examples on this page are highlighted in crayon; yours will not be this visible. Also think like the manufacturer. The proofs are placed before assembly. They may be under the stocks, and on small guns, very often are completely or partly under the grip panels. Pull those off (for many guns, like the Firestar, be careful not to move the safety as a plunger can become dislodged and fly away, lost forever when the grips are off) and look if you have no other luck.
Direct Date Marking?
At least one reader has a model PD with, apparently, the month and year of manufacture directly stamped on the frame.
Note that proofmarks are not highlighted; this has been emphasized with white crayon before imaging. It's still a bit of a mess, but if you are not seeing it, there's the proof house admission seal, the proof house pass seal, large letters apparently reading 'T•1' below this. Now, if you look at it sideways, there is a large '6 78' next to it.
This is still speculative, as there is no clear X or X1 date code to accompany it, but the pistol is of the style that would have been made in 1978, and the T1 is not an absolutely convincing date code due to size and format. The bullet between instead of asterisk above is something I have not seen.
This is also a good example of how hidden proomarks can be. This is not just accidentally under the stocks because it was stamped before assembly, but deliberately along the backstrap portion, very hidden from view unless searched for.
Using Serial Numbers to Determine Date of Manufacture?
A document sent to me some time ago, and which I just now noticed, is the same sheet as the above table from the nice people at Ipar Guns. At the bottom of it is, however, another note.
In 1995 serial numbers began to follow a coded system. Supposedly, this is:
| XX | - | XX | - | XXXXX | - | XX |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Manufacturer | - | Model | - | Firearm Number | - | Year of Manufacture |
However, I have not seen this that I noticed, and a perusal of the few post-1995 guns in my possession doesn't seem to indicate it, and of photos doesn't help either. It might appear on the box label, however, so everyone look around and tell me if that seems true.